In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz brings together two of the sharpest retention minds in e-commerce, Gabrielle Pitman (Client Strategy Director, eBusinessPros) and Josh Behr (Founder, A&B Interactive), for a no-nonsense deep dive on email, SMS, and what really drives profitable lifecycle marketing in 2025 and beyond.

They unpack:

• Inbox reality check, how Gmail/Yahoo changes have killed “batch & blast” and why engagement, not volume, now decides whether you inbox or disappear

• Retention math that works, shortening the window from first to second purchase, boosting LTV, and using post-purchase flows to drive cashflow (not just vibes)

• Sending less to make more, when cutting 30–50% of campaign volume increases revenue per recipient, and how to defend that strategy to a “send more” CEO

• Segmentation vs. spray & pray, how tools like AI-driven send logic and dynamic content can quietly prune dead weight, protect deliverability, and still hit revenue targets

• Personalization that isn’t creepy, using behavior, reviews, and real customer stories (not just first name tags) to create “luxury touch at scale”

• BFCM hangovers & ghost buyers, what to do with first-time Black Friday discount shoppers, and how gift cards, GWPs, and smarter offers turn a deal hunter into a repeat buyer

• Flows vs. campaigns, why most brands over-invest in blasts, under-invest in flows, and how to fix your first 14 days after purchase so customers want to come back

• Profitability over vanity, understanding net conversion (orders – returns + exchanges), discount conditioning, and why “more sends” is not a long-term strategy

If you’re a lifecycle marketer, agency operator, or founder staring at soft post-BFCM numbers, worried about unsubscribes, or trying to do more with less while keeping Google happy, this episode is your retention playbook.

👥 Meet the guests Gabrielle Pitman: Client Strategy Director at eBusinessPros, a lifecycle agency focused on email, SMS, and direct mail for deeper personalization and retention Josh Behr: Founder at A&B Interactive, an email & SMS agency built by ex-in-house operators obsessed with margins, deliverability, and customer LTV

🎙️ Hosted by Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder & Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters [00:00] Meet the Retention Heavyweights: Who’s Behind the Strategies [02:48] Email Isn’t Dead, You’re Just Using It Wrong [05:45] From “Hi First Name” to Actually Personal [08:48] The Tech Stack That Makes Customers Want to Click [11:36] Why They Buy, Why They Bounce, and How to Keep Them [14:28] Designing a Customer Journey They Don’t Want to Leave [17:37] Teach Before You Sell: Product Education That Prints Money [20:24] Turning Buyers Into Believers: How Real Brands Build Community [23:11] Your Secret Weapon: What CX Teams Know That Marketers Don’t [26:27] Rapid-Fire Lessons: What Today’s Best Retention Marketers All Share [28:13] Story vs. Discount: Brand Narratives That Outperform Promo Codes [36:43] Don’t Waste the First Purchase: How to Win the Second One Faster [40:30] After the Sale: Smart Plays That Keep Customers Coming Back [50:16] Beyond BFCM: How to Future-Proof Retention Going Into 2026

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

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