In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Jordan Shamir (Co-Founder & CEO of Yofi) and Malc Miller (Co-Founder & CEO of Wage) join Aaron Schwartz for a conversation that zig-zags from Ohio State vs. Michigan trash talk to the hardest truths about building DTC startups.

Jordan breaks down how Yofi grew from sneaker resale frustrations into an AI-powered fraud and abuse prevention platform trusted by major brands. Malc shares lessons from neuroscience and his time at Lululemon, now channelled into Wage—a gamified finance app that rethinks how communities learn, play, and invest.

They tackle:

• 🛑 Fraud isn’t just lost revenue — it wrecks CX, trust, and downstream data.

• 🎮 Gamification, neuroscience, and why sparring with peers beats theory every time.

• 🛠 The founder toolkit: slowing down to speed up, modular product design, and why being wrong (a lot) is part of the job. Stick around for why losing a Lululemon contract turned into the best thing that ever happened to Yofi.

👥 Meet the guests

Jordan Shamir, Co-Founder & CEO, Yofi

Malc Miller, Co-Founder & CEO, Wage

Hosted by Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder & Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters [00:00] Buckeyes vs. Wolverines - setting the tone [01:46] Malc’s path - neuroscience, soccer, systems thinking [05:00] Jordan’s origin story - schemer to startup operator [06:48] Yofi’s pivot - from sneaker chaos to CX-first fraud defense [08:52] Enterprise reality check - when no one owns fraud [12:07] The Lulu loss that leveled up Yofi [17:02] Inside future experiences at Lululemon - spotting patterns early [18:54] Wage 101 - pickup-game finance and learning by doing [21:33] Gamification that matters - win, lose, learn [23:56] Data you can trust - stop learning from dirty signals [31:55] Founder truths - assume you’re wrong, move anyway [34:34] Slow down to speed up - modular product over platform pitch [36:35] Team cadence - three outcomes per meeting, always [39:54] Hiring for ownership - problem finders vs. problem solvers [42:47] Build it, don’t debate it - design first, align fast [48:31] Where to find Malc and Jordan (and Wage’s waitlist) [49:45] Parting shots - momentum is manufactured [50:45] Sign-off - don’t do startups alone

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast—where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team.

Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing—by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

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