In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Fan Bi, operator, investor, and founder of Blank Label (acquired) and The Hedgehog Company, for an honest look at what happens when growth at all costs collides with the laws of profitability.

Together, they unpack:

• Zombie brands 101, how to spot when common equity is out of the money (and may never be again)

• The real multiple, why sub-$50M brands trade on profit, not fantasy revenue numbers

• Platform myths, why shared ops, shared customer lists, and “synergy” rarely pencil out

• The operator’s playbook, margin targets, repeat behavior, and cutting operational complexity

• Resetting expectations, how to turn a not-yet-profitable brand into a durable business

• AI as a thought partner, how real operators are using (and mistrusting) chat models in 2025

• BFCM prep for mortals, what to do if your Q4 plan misses, and how to protect your liquidity

👥 Meet the guest Fan Bi, Co-Founder & Managing Partner at The Hedgehog Company

🎙 Hosted by Aaron Schwartz, Co-founder & Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters [00:00] When Founders Stop Pretending: Welcome to The Orita Podcast [01:50] How Fan Bi Went from Custom Shirts to Capital Stacks [03:09] From Blink Label to Hedgehog: The Operator Becomes the Investor [05:07] The Harsh Truth About Valuations (and Why Profit Still Wins) [07:42] The Real Checklist: Margins, Repeat Buys, and Operational Chaos [10:16] Inside the P&L: Common Founder Blind Spots That Kill Profit [12:52] Retention Over Reach: Why Growth Isn’t Always the Goal [15:21] The Market Doesn’t Care About Your Slide Deck (and That’s Good) [16:59] The Platform Mirage: Why “Synergy” Rarely Pays the Bills [19:35] Zombie Brands: When Founders Don’t Know They’re Already Gone [21:22] The Emotional Hangover of Building (and Letting Go) [23:05] AI in E-Commerce: Overhyped, Under-Delivered, Still Inevitable [25:41] If We Started a Brand Today… Here’s the Playbook [28:09] Revenue Quality to Growth Rate: The Quiet Moat No One Talks About [30:41] Omnichannel Dreams vs. Operational Nightmares [33:08] Black Friday Forecast: How to Survive a Soft Season [34:29] Where to Find Fan Bi (and Why You’ll Want to)

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

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